1. And Lo, it came to pass that Exodus is not true ==>

1.2. Egypt - 1447 BCE

THE POINT!

The "best estimate" date of the Exodus is precisely the time when Egypt was at its zenith of power. This would not have been possible if they had just suffered through all of gawd's plagues and had their army drowned in the Red Sea.

The exact date of the Exodus is in dispute. See http://www.crivoice.org/exodusdate.html, a "Theological Resource for Growing Christians", for an excellent discussion of this dispute.

The traditional bible chronology dates the Exodus to c.1447 BCE.*

The range of dates I have found are from 1628 BCE to 1200-1250 BCE. The uncertainty about the dates is caused by different "biblical scholars' "* attempts to calibrate the biblical discription with archiological findings. None of the events described in the Bible can be associated with what we know about what really went on in Egypt during the period 1628 - 1200 BCE. That is why scholars have such a hard time agreeing on the date of the Exodus!

Since 1447 is the "traditional" date and since it is near the midpoint of the range of possible dates, I will use it.

So here's the best evidence I have for my claim that the book of Exedous is totally without merit:

With respect to the Egyptians, in 1447 BCE, immediately after gawd pulled of his tenth plague, the Egyptians....

had been without water for seven days and no fish:

7:19 All their their rivers, their ponds, and all their pools of water,became blood and the fish that was in the river died; and the river stank, and the Egyptians could not drink of the water of the river; and there was blood throughout all the land of Egypt.

NOTE1: all the rivers would include the Nile River, take a look at the Nile and imagine it to be all blood.

NOTE2: Egyptians had to go without water for seven days. Most people die especially in a hot climate.

NOTE3: Since the Pharoah's magicians did the same thing, I guess they were without water for longer than seven days.

were infested with lice:

8:16 ... lice came upon men and animals. All the dust throughout the land of Egypt became lice.
Such utter nonsense ... "All the dust... became lice". But if you believe Exodus, you have to believe this too.

lost all their livestock:

9:6 all the cattle of Egypt died

had all their "beasts", trees and crops and farmers destroyed by hail:

9:19 for upon every man and beast which shall be found in the field, and shall not be brought home, the hail shall come down upon them, and they shall die.

Many Egyptians would have been farmers; ergo many Egyptians were killed BEFORE the 10th plague


9:25 And the hail smote throughout all the land of Egypt all that was in the field, both man and beast; and the hail smote every herb of the field, and brake every tree of the field.

had their (remaining?) crops devoured by locusts

10:15 For they covered the face of the whole earth*, so that the land was darkened; and they did eat every herb of the land, and all the fruit of the trees which the hail had left**: and there remained not any green thing in the trees, or in the herbs of the field, through all the land of Egypt.

* "the face of the whole earth"?

** the BIBLE says that the hail smote "all that was in the field".

 

AT THIS POINT, THE EGYPTIANS HAD NO FOOD OR FORESEEABLE SOURCE OF FOOD!

(and had gone without water for seven days)

 

had all their firstborn killed (the passover - i.e gawd's genocide of Egyptians)

12:29 And it came to pass, that at midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle*.

12:30 ... and there was a great cry in Egypt; for there was not a house where there was not one dead.

Hey... wouldn't the Pharaoh have been a first born? Isn't that how he became Pharaoh.

 

gawd kills the cattle a second time - I guess they got resurrected so he could kill them again.

Ha Ha Ha... the all knowing gawd has to have the jews put lambs' blood on their doorframe so he can identify them but he instantly can identify each firstborn of every living thing.

Think about this...

Every household experienced at least one dead.

For my household, the dead people would have included me, my wife, my first daughter, my first grandchild, my son-in-law, my second daughter's daughter Lucy. All drop dead - instantly - at the stroke of midnight - for no apparent reason. Three households - six dead.

Up to one-third of the remaining (farmers in the field were killed by hail) Egyptian population would be killed, just drop dead instantly over night! Babies, slaves, soldiers, you name it. Imagine the stench, the disease, the vermin, the dead bodies (people, livestock, plants) everywhere.

 

Thus, there is no question that the combination of dead farmers and dead first born would amount to at least one-third of the Egyptian population.

had their ENTIRE army (what was left of it) drowned in the Red Sea, along with the Pharaoh

14:6 And he made ready his chariot, and took his people with him: ("He" being the Pharaoh)

14:7 And he took six hundred chosen chariots, and all the chariots of Egypt, and captains over every one of them.

:

14:9 But the Egyptians pursued after them, all the horses and chariots of Pharaoh, and his horsemen, and his army,....

14:10 And when Pharaoh drew nigh,.. (proving that the Pharaoh was there at the Red Sea)

14:28 And the waters returned, and covered the chariots, and the horsemen, and all the host of Pharaoh that came into the sea after them; there remained not so much as one of them.

Honestly, how is it possible that the Pharaoh had ANY army left? And wouldn't they have stayed home to mourn and bury their dead? They had quite a burial process.

After all, the Egyptians didn't blame the jews because there was no way for them, scattered throughout the empire, to know about the little goings on between the Pharaoh and Moses. They would have blamed their own god Re.

 

And yet... there is no mention of a calamity of this magnitude anywhere other than the bible.

Think of it this way... if, in the United States, approximately 20 million workers of the lowest job skills suddenly disappeared tomorrow and, at the same time, 1/3 of our population suddenly dropped dead, all at the stroke of midnight, and our entire remaining Army drowned in the sea, don't you think this would be noted somewhere, somehow?

 

 

YET, in FACT, at this same time in history, it is well documented that...

Egypt was in what is known as The New Kingdom (1570-1070 BC) period.

"It was Egypts most prosperous time and marked the zenith of its power."

(See http://www.touregypt.net/hdyn18a.htm for details)

1447 falls right in the middle of the 18th Dynasty (1580-1350 BCE) which is THE MOST promenent dynasty in the New Kingdom.
(I did not plan it this way... I picked the date AND THEN investigated the state of Egypt at that time - really...truth!)

"The pharaoh in 1447 was Thutmose III who was the sixth Pharaoh of the Eighteenth Dynasty. He created the largest empire Egypt had ever seen; no fewer than seventeen campaigns were conducted, and he conquered from Niy in north Syria to the fourth waterfall of the Nile in Nubia. Officially, Thutmose III ruled Egypt for almost fifty-four years, and his reign is usually dated from April 24, 1479 BC to March 11, 1425 BC."

 

Widely considered a military genius by historians, Thutmose III made 16 raids in 20 years. He was an active expansionist ruler, sometimes called Egypt's greatest conqueror or "the Napoleon of Egypt". He is recorded

(not "reported") to have captured 350 cities during his rule and conquered much of the Near East from the Euphrates to Nubia during seventeen known military campaigns. He was the first Pharaoh after Thutmose I to cross the Euphrates, doing so during his campaign against Mitanni. His campaign records were transcribed onto the walls of the temple of Amun at Karnak, and are now transcribed into Urkunden IV. He is consistently regarded as one of the greatest of Egypt's warrior pharaohs, who transformed Egypt into an international superpower by creating an empire that stretched from southern Syria through to Canaan and Nubia.

See the extensive description of his battles here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thutmose_III

 

HOW IS IT POSSIBLE that Thutmose III captured 350 cities during the time of the Exodus IF Egypt had:

  • no food
  • no crops - hail and locusts
  • no cattle - plague 5 and hail and first-born (killed em three times!)
  • no fish - Nile river turned to blood - all the fish died
  • no sizable population - approximately 1/3 of entire Egyptian population dead
  • all first-born (not just babies - FIRST BORN!)
  • all farmers who were "in the field" at the time of the seventh plague - hail
  • many would have died from lack of water for seven+ days (remember, the pharaoh's magicians turned the water into blood too).
  • no youthful poplulation
  • gawds midnight genocide gambit killed all the first-born
  • no one to do low level labor
  • all of its "slaves", estimated to be approximately 2 million, disappeared into the desert - the "exodus" .
  • The loss of such a huge proportion of the population would have caused havoc to the Egyptian economy,
  • no army
  • lost its entire remaining (after death of first born) army
    (note this reduces the Egyptian population even more below the 2/3s that remained after the 10 plagues)
  • all drowned in the Red Sea
  • no god or government
  • among others, the Egyptians worshiped a god they called Ra. He was believed to rule in all parts of the created world the sky, the earth, and the underworld. The pharaohs were seen to be Ra's manifestations on earth
  • the pharaoh (believed by Egyptians to be devine) drowned along with the army in the Red Sea even though he should have been killed in the "first-born" genocide.

  • the pharaoh's first-born son and probable successor, died in the genocide
  • thus, Egypt was without a leader for the first time in over 1000 years. No problem though - right?
  •  

     


    There is only one truth; which do you pick?

    1. All the writing and drawings in the pyramids and tombs are lies, archiological evidence is a lie, ancient Egyptian history as taught and accepted over the years is a lie; Exodus as described in the bible is the truth.

    2. There really are writings and drawings in the tombs and pyramids of the Pharaohs that correctly depict life in Egypt around 1300 BCE as corroborated by numerous archiological expeditions; Egypt was a power during the time Exodus was supposed to have taken place; the bible is false.

    3. Both things are true; Egypt was a power and Exodus as described in the bible occured simutaneously.
    PLEASE NOTE: If you pick this answer, then you admit that gawd failed to do what he wanted to do which to you all is impossible.

     

    No Christian Weasel Excuses are available this time.

  • "With God, all things are possible".
    But God wasn't trying to help the Egyptians - he was showing that HE is the Lord, not Ra.
  • "God made it to appear this way."
    In that case, God made it to appear that he failed to punish the Egyptians.
  •  

     

    How can you believe that Exodus actually happened?

    What is your evidence? Where are the original "writings" of Moses?

     

     

    QUESTION: Instead of "hardening the heart of the Pharaoh", (4:21, 7:3, 7:13, 9:12, 10:1, 10:20, 10:27, 11:10, 14:4, 14:8) why didn't gwad just soften the heart of the Pharaoh? Where was the "free will" of the Pharaoh if gawd was hardening his heart?

     

     

    Point One of my Proof: There is no way that Egypt could have become the power it was in 1447 BCE if it had suffered the damage described by the 10 plagues and lost its remaining army in the Red Sea.

     

    * Biblical Scholar - a contradiction in terms.
    You can't be called a scholar if you start with a strong personal preconception and then attempt to find proof that you are right.

    Scholarship means to assemble facts and derive a hypothesis from the facts and then work to prove or, with equal passion, disprove your hypothesis.

    *1 Kings 6:1 dates the Exodus 480 years before the construction of Solomon's Temple <. Equating the biblical chronology with dates in history is notoriously difficult, but Edwin Thiele's widely accepted reconciliation of the reigns of the Israelite and Judahite kings would imply an Exodus in 1447 BC during the reign of Pharaoh Thutmose III (1479-1425 BC).< target="_blank">/font>[16]
    (Google search for biblical Exodus date yielded Widopedia article the Exodus )